A small fandom rant

[katekat]

WHY, oh WHY do people insist that Spike deliberately fought for his soul? Did anyone actually watch the same TV show I did?

Ok, I know, even the writers put that into Buffy's mouth - the whole "he fought for his redemption" line (or maybe it was Willow's? Someone's? I didn't really pay attention that much to S7, so forgive me if I screw that up).

HOWEVER, I was paying attention when Spike got on his bike and went away, after his horrible attempt to convince Buffy she loved him. I was paying attention to what he said to the demony guy in africa, but in case you'd like a refresher:

His last line from 6.19:
SPIKE: Get nice and comfy, Slayer. I'll be back. And when I do ... things are gonna change.

And his lines from inside the demon cave in 6.22:
SPIKE: So you'll give me what I want. Make me what I was. So Buffy can get what she deserves.

DEMON: Very well.  (Spike watches the demon nervously.)

DEMON: We will return...  (The demon's hand reaches out toward Spike's chest.)

DEMON: ...your soul.

The hand touches his chest and it glows fiery yellow-orange. Spike's eyes glow the same color. He throws back his head and screams.
[ from here ]

What she DESERVES?  How is that "give me a soul so I can be soulmates with her?"  In my world, it's not.  It's a vampire who is angry and jilted, who wants revenge on the woman that made him feel that way.  OH, and wants the chip out.  He says "make me what I was" ... the implication there is get rid of the damn chip, not 'give me a soul'.  And he says it like he's angry and annoyed and ready to tear Buffy's head off along with the rest.  How does that become Spike toddling off going "I'll get a soul to win Buffy over"??   And why is it so important for so many fans that it does?  The vamp's way cooler with out the damn soul, if you asked me.

And fine, so Joss (or, in the realm of the show, the demon that cursed him with it) gave Spike a bright and shiny soul so he could be tortured.  And fine, technically he fought for it.  But it wasn't what he thouht he was fighting for!  Do you, when they hand you the rinky-dink colored eraser prize off the bottom of the shelf at the fairgrounds, the consolation prize when you were aiming for the big stuffed panda bear that's taller than you are and that you'd have to strap to the car on the way home, do you say "I was trying for the consolation prize?"  NO!  You say "I was trying for the panda bear, and all I got was this rinky-dink eraser!"

I'd just like for people to remember that about Spike!  Remember that he was trying to get the damn chip extracted, and all he got was the stupid soul.  Now that should go on a t-shirt:  "All I wanted was my chip removed, and instead I got this stupid soul."  (ok, that one probably only amuses me.)

ETA: elizabuffy points out that I am so not up on my S7 lore, and I missed the parts (or wishfully ignored them) where Spike in his crazy rants and raves admits to deliberately going after his soul. I always said cannon should end in S5.

Comments

[liliaeth]

Aside of the First telling us that Spike chose to get his soul, Spike himself telling Buffy he chose to get his soul, there's also the fact that he didn't need to get his chip out to hurt Buffy.

If all Spike wanted to do was hurt Buffy, big surprise, he could already do it.

The chip didn't work on Buffy since s6. At all.

If he wanted to kill her, he could have killed her a dozen times over.

And the main reason that I'd hate the idea of the chip being something he was tricked into, is because it'd lower the meaning of the soul. To me, Spike choosing his soul is part of his ongoing redemption. And if it had been some trick or something, part of the value would be gone.

And before you start about her friends. Spike isn't Angel. He's not into torturing Buffy by hurting her friends. That'd be an Angel thing to do. If Spike wanted to hurt Buffy, he'd kill her himself, and he didn't want to do that. He didn't want to hurt her, he felt guilty enough after the attempted rape as we're clearly shown in the scene with Clem, where he talks about not understanding why he stopped, why he didn't go on after Buffy kicked him off, because he just can't understand why he's feeling guilt when he shouldn't be able to do so.

Spike wanted to stop being half, he wanted some clarity and he thought the soul would give him that. (he just didn't really have a clue what he was getting into, since he didn't know souled Angel enough to know that Angel is still Angelus, just locked on a leash) And it's probably the best part of s6, his choice to become better, to become more than he was. In fact, Spike's soul and his love for Buffy are what makes s7 worth watching.

[liliaeth]

And the main reason that I'd hate the idea of the chip being something he was tricked into,

God I hate this heat, only realized just now that I wrote chip when I meant soul...

((when is lj finally going to give us an editing function for comments))

[katekat]

First off, we're probably going to always disagree about one point or another in this conversation because we come from two different sides of the fence, cannonically speaking. And I hope you understand that I've been trying to acknowledge that my perspective when I wrote this post was mostly focused on the end of S6, and that I admitted, moments after I was corrected by a close friend, that I had not included the many things Spike & the First & everyone said in S7, where the story line is definitely that Spike went for his soul. I may have acknowledged it badly, but I was trying to say that I was wrong in my ETA note.

That being said, that is an interesting point about Spike hurting Buffy, and it's the first time anyone has brought it up.

On the other hand, if you look at it from the perspective that Spike didn't simply want to get his chip out, but wanted to return to an emotional state that was closer to his earlier devil-may-care vampire self, where he didn't have feeling for Buffy, perhaps you can see wherre I'm coming from.

I had no intention on starting on her friends, and I agree with you about Spike's being frustrated in his scene with Clem. I'm not even sure if we differe on our interpreation of why he's frustrated, just on the intent of his actions after that.

I do think, in terms of your argument, that Spike wanted to stop being half. I'm not completely convinced that he thought the solution to that was to become a vampire with a soul, because it seems to me that's even more marginal.

But, like I said, we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I really have no doubts my argument is not persuasive enough to change your mind.

Thank you for taking the time to comment, regardless.

[liliaeth]

Oh I do understand what you mean
(and sorry if I seemed a bit harsh, just used to it that a lot of people who insist on Spike going to get the chip out, try and bring up her friends as the reason when you point out that the chip didn't work on Buffy*g*
It's become like an instinctive part of the response*eg*)

I could see your point, the problem of it for me is that, one, I like Spike's story better with him choosing for the soul, and two, I don't believe that Spike was ever really the big bad that he tried to be.

Spike has a tendency to try and become what he thinks the person he loves wants him to be. Poetic, sophisticated and a good man for Cecily (that one didn't exactly work), a good student and a monster for Angelus, a dark vicious knight for Drusilla, ... he was still trying to find what Buffy wanted. He knew she wanted someone who helped people, even if he didn't get why he was supposed to do so, someone who didn't feed on bleeding disastervictims, someone who's good and can fight and...

The big problem is though, that none of those are really him. S2 Spike is just as much a pretense as the Spike in the beginning of s5 trying to tell Buffy that he didn't feed on the disaster victims. By S5 of Angel Spike was still trying to find the real him.